My conversation with a storyteller, Deinma David Iyagba.
As a 23 year old person living in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Deinma David Iyagba, is still in the process of establishing his art of storytelling through the creative arts. Deinma has exhibited in some group shows, a solo show, and is currently participating in the 2024 BFA Honours Graduating Exhibition at the UofM School of Art building. I now welcome you to read our conversation where talk about the eventful series of events that have led him to where he is now, his taste in music, his mum's words to him, and more.
F.C.E. : Yeah, so I don't know who you are, so describe yourself and who you are as a creative to me.
D.D.I. : Interesting. Not as a creative, that's the only part of the conversation I don’t really think about. I only think about, I try to not think about myself, I try to think of where I want to be as a description of myself, than telling you who I am now. Because I feel like I'm in the process…
F.C.E. : You're still in the process of figuring that out.
D.D.I. : Yeah, everyday I find out something new. I'm expressing myself. I'm exploring space, and negative space, that's one of the biggest interests I've had for a few months, almost a year now. Thinking about negative space and changing it from negative to positive space. But, I also feel like this is not the answer to your question.
F.C.E. : No, it is. Most of your works I've already seen now, I've heard that phrase, thinking about using negative space in your works. Things that are not usually used, [like the group exhibition you were. in], with the plastic forks that were poured…
D.D.I : material poetry, that was the name.
F.C.E. : That one! I was like, oh you guys are using stuff that would not be considered art worthy, to actually make art. So that makes sense to me. So, if not a creative, what would you describe yourself as? Storyteller? I don’t want to put words into your mouth, haha.
D.D.I. : I like that one. I like approaching it as storytelling. I think that's where I found the interest in this ability to like, convey a story, create a conversation. So I feel like, in a way, storyteller, but I also feel like I'm more interested in… Ah thinker! That's what I feel. Because I feel like a lot of the explorations I do is me thinking out stuff, and then I create a story that is in a way, sometimes palpable, that you can actually follow, or sometimes it's completely out of place. So yeah, maybe thinker.
F.C.E. : Okay, we are establishing you as a storyteller. So, as a storyteller, what type of works have you put out? Well, not type. How many works... Actually, the reason for this question is to know the amount of works you have put out since you decided to take the creative path.
D.D.I. : How many stories have I put out?
F.C.E : Yes, how many stories have you put out?
D.D.I. : I only recently found out that my interest was really in the story. Not just the story of making stories so you can read it, but the story that is active. So it's like, the story is going, it keeps going. Just like how I said, I don't know where I am. I can't really explain myself as who I am now. I can only tell you this is where I want to be. So I think that's also the progress of the story of the work. It's always moving. I've put out three shows, maybe some of them are related, but I don't think they relate in that way. I've put out one solo show and done three group shows.
F.C.E. : Wait, the one with the film, in Taché, was that one a solo show?
D.D.I. : No, it was a group show. That was escapism. I had video work on photography. I had writing too. The images that were there, like my eyes, it was almost scary. I printed them on different materials because I felt that they had different rates. One had gloss, so the eyes seemed to move. And then the matte one was just matte, it was flat.
F.C.E. : Do you have a certain way that you try to execute the stories you try to tell? Or are you very flexible? Are you willing to try new things?
D.D.I. : In the sense of the word, I have a way. But my way is being flexible. I say this thing, I am a multidisciplinary to transdisciplinary artist. So instead of just being multidisciplinary, because with that one everything remains itself, but transdisciplinary is a more exploratory way of making. Everything is almost changing to a new object, so I always explore and explore. I like to mix and match things and fuse them together.
F.C.E. : So in a way that they're still connecting, even if it's different media?
D.D.I. : Yeah, exactly. So they become one, just like a story, -you can tell the perspective of a mom, a dad, and all these different perspectives come to tell a story- and together they become a new thing. So that's how I try to convey stories.
F.C.E. : I've seen your film, I've seen your photography, collage as well, and then the printmaking, which is the one that interests me the most, and I don't know why I'm asking, It’s just interesting to me, but why are you making prints?
D.D.I. : They're all associated with an African culture, and it's like a huge signifier, I mean the name is African fabric. But then it's also like, when you go to the history, it's like not made by [laughs], it's not made by African people. It was sold to us that we kind of adopted it.
F.C.E. : Oh, let's talk about your show now. I think we've covered most of the background, actually, how old are you? I want to know that as well, or is that too personal?
D.D.I. : No, no, no, it's fine. I'm not scared of my age. I like aging. I was born in 2000, so I'm 23.
F.C.E. : My reason for asking is because I want to give people the perspective that, they can do things. Because, most of what I'm doing now relates to my background, with my parents just seeing the best profession as being a doctor, lawyer, they didn't really think beyond that. So I didn't get that narrative of, oh, even as young as 17 or 18, you can do anything. You don't really need anyone's guidance. If you feel like you have the talent and you have the means to put out stuff, you just put it out there. Because, I didn't get that until very recently. But I'm not talking about myself.
D.D.I. : No, no, it's an interesting conversation, right?…
F.C.E. : That's true. According to Ella [Ajene], you were in biological science. So yes, that is interesting. You were one of those that...
D.D.I. : Yes. I was one of them that traveled.
F.C.E. : You dared to…
D.D.I. : Explore.
F.C.E. : Yeah, you dared to explore. So, let's talk about that, how did you come to make that decision? How was the process? What was your mum’s reaction?
-At this time, I will go ahead to shortly describe this section of Deinma’s story-
With the purpose of learning how to design cars on his mind, Deinma started out at the University of Manitoba aiming to get into the faculty of engineering, precisely to study mechanical engineering. But after a year of experiencing a series of events that included, a loss of interest in the subjects being taught and a bad term result that was revealed at the request of a friend -who had just gotten theirs- while the whole party was out eating with Deinma’s mom, a switch occurred. Trying to figure out who he was, Deinma frequently took trips to the academic advisor’s [in this interview at least 3 meetings were mentioned]. The first time, it was revealed to him that he had interests in things that involved using his creativity and intuition. With that he took some architecture classes, psychology classes, programming class and, a computer class which he slept through the whole four hours of. His second visit to the academic advisor’s was brought up by an interest in going into environmental sciences after taking an environmental design course. This second trip did not go well, and with the rudeness from this advisor Deinma sadly lost interest. However, it was for the better. His final trip to an academic advisor, mentioned in this interview, led him back to architecture, which he was successfully pursuing and would have probably stuck with if these next events did not take place.
These events included fulfilling a Mathematics requirement under the Arts department, taking some Fine arts courses so he could learn the basics of painting and drawing, and then transfer said knowledge towards his architecture pursuit, an overly artistically done architecture assignment -as stated by his professor,- and finally, an art history course with a professor sent personally from God. Fulfilling that math requirement led him to the building he is no longer a stranger to [the School of Art building at the University of Manitoba] Deinma stated, “I said to myself, "I'll just take it." So, I came to this building [School of art] for the first time, and thought, "This is actually cool," because I was seeing all the arts that people then, not like now, used to put up. Then, there used to be way more works around. I was like, "This is interesting," and I jokingly told my friend, "Maybe I'll change to this [School of art] if architecture doesn't work out," and God was like, "Hmm,"“ [God was listening]. Indeed God was in fact listening, because two-three weeks later after he submitted his application, -plus a surprise recommendation from the aforementioned art history professor,- Deinma received an acceptance letter from the faculty of Fine Arts, and started to pursue a degree in Fine arts. This event lined up perfectly for him as his interest in architecture was no longer as it used to be. This was because he had just found out that the projects being done would not even make it past the portfolio.
Even with that rocky start, which also included being told by one of his friends, "You should not be an artist," after he had shown a drawing of his to them, Deinma has never not relied on the will of God to keep directing him to the right path, and that is something I could not fail to admire in his story.
-back to the conversation-
F.C.E. : It's such a different story. You hear people say they've been drawing or being creative since they were children. Somehow, I expected that to be everybody's story.
D.D.I. : I'm trying to figure it out. I used to dance. That was the only art. Now I've been in the arts for a longer period. I've been thinking back on my childhood to see possible tangents. It's a joke in my house. I used to act out Lion King with my teddy-bears, so my sister uses it to joke. That acting, that performance, then I started learning how to dance. It came to me this quick. It's not that I was just good. I was really good. That was how it was. I stopped dancing and it translated itself in a new way of creating. It's not that I stopped knowing how to dance. It's just reforming itself.
F.C.E. : Do you get bored easily?
D.D.I. : [laughs and nods] yeahh.
F.C.E. : That's me as well. With what I'm starting now. I've had different ways that I just want to put out stuff. Then I just get bored, but at the same time, I know I still have to slow down and let things nurture. Just let what I'm building build up and then I can divert, and just find a way to connect everything.
D.D.I. : That's very true. When you find something that keeps you learning.
F.C.E. : It keeps you alive. The change keeps you alive.
D.D.I. : The inconsistency and lack of repetition keeps you alive.
both parties: [laughs ]
F.C.E. : I really like this conversation, but diverting to you as a normal human being. Do you watch movies? Do you watch TV series? Do you listen to music? Do you read books?
D.D.I. : A lot of sports. I used to play badminton for 5 years. Badminton was a big sport in my school. People say football was big, but the reason I feel like badminton was bigger was because it was odd. It was odd for badminton to be on the same level as football. People see it as such a huge prestige, and people play and would just come and watch because the games were always intense. Then I also, I love listening to music. I've never had one taste. It's just marinating and touching all types of music.
F.C.E. : I relate to that 100%
D.D.E. : [laughs] You know Ola [Victor Abiola] said to me, “You and Fran have the same music taste,” and I was like, “what? Interesting.” Exactly because You flee from all these different ways of thinking. Of recent I’ve been moving away from rap? It doesn't float my boat.
F.C.E. : Me too. I listened to rap in secondary school. That was my jam, but now if it's not a storytelling type of rap, where it's hip hop rap from before… Outkast has this song called the art of storytelling, I want that type of music playing in my head these days.
D.D.I. : I like watching more animation than movies. I think it's mostly because there's this element of spontaneity. It's just like painting. You can do anything. There are no restrictions so, it's interesting with animations… With such light and colorful themes. I feel like it's so rich. It's like watching a Marvel movie versus the animation. The animation is always better. I also like to write and read.
F.C.E.: Do you have a favourite genre to read? Or do you read anything?
D.D.I. : I read anything. I read anything that I find interesting, but I've been trying to get my taste of books. Just like how it's versatile for music, I want to get that taste in books. I was reading this book about this German lady, I don't know, I think it's a mixture [fiction & autobiography]… I used to really love the idea of reading, but now I am actually reading. It's actually nice because it gives you the same drama as an animation. When you're in your mind, you're creating. There's this possibility of this space. In a way, you're acting it out, but you're not really physically acting it out. I like things that put me in that headspace where I'm in real-time creating, but I'm also enjoying something, like with certain music, certain songs… I've been listening to a lot of music that I don't really understand what they're saying. It's a lot of Spanish or other African music. I just go to YouTube and find folk African songs. It's so good, and it's so good when im working and thinking stuff out, because it's not words, and if there are words, I don't understand them. The ones I understand, they're not cursing and saying all this bad stuff, so it doesn't kick me out of that flow… There are very few things that are able to touch your soul without permission. Music is one of them, which is why you need to be careful about what you listen to, because it doesn't need permission to enter you. It goes straight, directly. Which is also why worship is such a big thing. It's so influential… You get people saying, "You have such a weird taste in music." I say, “Thank you.” I think it's a compliment. It's richer than mainstream music. Mainstream music is vibes…
F.C.E. : The only mainstream person that has ever been up there for me is Michael Jackson, and the only reason he was mainstream was because people actually enjoyed listening to weird music when he started creating… I'll say, from this conversation, your life makes sense to me, and I really like the media that you use.
F.C.E. : I don't like to ask people about their future, but I will. You said you like to describe yourself from where you would like to be. Do you have any idea of what that is? Like a closing remark.
D.D.I. : A closing remark? First of all, I want to be where God wants me to be. I don't want to be in any other place.
F.C.E. : That’s like the best answer.
D.D.I. : That's where I want to be. I also have, I call them “vague goals.” I feel like there are just things I want to do and I'm interested in being in that kind of space. It's just really stamping being an artist. Not just for myself, but so that other people can be like, “Oh, this is a possible career.” I didn't know it was possible. I never thought of it. I wanted to be a paleontologist. I was not arts at all. OH MY GOD! I've had this experience twice. Where I am someone's first experience of seeing art. It's a blessing. My artist talk, seeing a kid, and it was his [the kid] first time being an artist talk in general. I was so interested in what he wanted to do, his mindset, cause I don't know if he was into art. I met a friend of mine, he had just met his friend. I was going to show my friend the work, and I said, “Oh, you come too.” He just jumped. He didn't know what he was getting himself into. He sat there, and he went through my side, and went through the other side. He said to me, “This is amazing I didn't know this could be what art is.” I was like, “Wow,” it hit my heart different… I don't think I'll forget their faces… I want to refresh them with something new, send their minds into a space that they've probably never been before or never thought about. So if I'm able to keep doing that, just exploring stuff, and people are like, “I've never thought of it this way,” I think it's really good.
F.C.E.: That's my aim. I need people to think beyond their parents… leave that uncertainty. Allow it just be an uncertainty. It's life.
D.D.I. : Everything happens for a reason. That's the thing too. I know it's not easy. I know that I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. But I know that I don't need to care about what's going to happen tomorrow. I just give it to God. God has that one so I don't need to worry about it. What I’ll do now is explore the things I can explore, and we'll see how that leads and where that takes us…
It's interesting because my mom said to me when I told her “I'm going to Fine arts.” She was like, "Eh? What do you mean Fine arts?” and my aunt was like, “When you finish, you'll do a master's in architecture.” I said, “Eh! When I get there, I'll find out where I want to be.” I remember she [his mum] said to me, “I hope you're not switching because you think arts is easier than sciences.” There's so many levels to that statement, and she followed it up with, “Because arts is way harder than sciences.”
But arts, everything is coming from you, there's also the vulnerability of that too, and what if someone doesn't like what you're doing? How does that affect you? That kind of constant, I mean she still let me go into the unknown. A lot of stuff has happened, I guess, and even that too influences the way she sees it. My mom still came to me, she came for my first show, and she saw it, but before then, she was like, “I don't know what you're talking about.” … When she came for the show, she said something to me which was --every time I think about it, I always find something new about that day-- when she finished the show and she went through the experience, I asked, “So how was your experience?” and she said to me, “I see now.” I was like, “You see now?” She said she understands now, but before she didn't understand, and she was like, “There was a fear of it,” and I guess when she came, God gave her this peace, that she just understood that it.
That was such a rich thing. Sometimes I think about it. But I also don't think about it that often, only when I'm in a conversation and someone's like, “So what do your parents think about what you're doing?” Then I tell them that, and they're like, “I'm happy that your parents agree.” I don't know if she agrees, but she sees it, and maybe that's a go-ahead worth exploring. So yeah, that's one thing, and it has taken so much weight off me.